Prometheus

[CMcCormack]

So this movie ended up being what I've come to expect from post-Gladiator Ridley Scott: Absolutely fantastic looking, but didn't hold up so well in the script department.

That being said, I can't say that I didn't like it, because I feel the things that I did like far outweighed the things I didn't.  Yes there are plot holes a mile wide, yes the final scene is unnecessary, but the look was absolutely fantastic, there were at least two set pieces that were more intense than anything i've seen in a long time, and the ATMOM parallels were great.

The thing that really made me smile though, is when it dawned on me that Prometheus is through and through a classic Heavy Metal story come to life.  Honestly, the design just screams Moebius and the story would be right at home in  classic Heavy Metal, and I absolutely love that.

[froibo]

The movie is a wonderful piece of science fiction, and definitely worth seeing. No other movie has done such a good job presenting Lovecraftian and Doctor Who-esque storytelling and visuals. The movie is a ton of fun, and adds an incredibly cool layer to the "Xenomorph Mythos". No movie will meet ALL expectations, but Scott is something of a cinematic genius, and I plan to own this movie the day the blu-ray comes out. I say it's a triumph, and a brilliant adaptation of ATMOM, besides.

I disagree, I think it was a it was a betrayal to the Lovecraftian themes that Alien had and just keep the plot framework of At the Mountains of Madness. Spoilers follow:


Mainly the sense of hopelessness / retreat and ignorance is the only victory, was absent - The protagonist accomplishes her life dream of finding the creators of mankind only to find out that humanity is the result of some twisted experiment,  boyfriend dies of infection designed by said creators, has her sterility (which the movie showed she was very sensitive of) mocked by creators, aborts abomination-baby, falls for a trap by creators that nearly exterminates life on Earth, witnesses aborted abomination-baby murder a creator while escaping a similar fate, and not only remains relatively sane but is also determined to continue seeking out the creators for more answers.

There were also a bunch of little things that bothered me but I found them forgivable and probably just me nitpicking, such as the "unanswered questions" I found lacking depth. The ending tone however, completely ruined the movie for me as an Alien prequel and a horror movie.

Also, the flute playing by the creators I assume was a shout out (slap in the face) to the Elder Things and Lovecraft.  I'm glad he is not alive to see this.


The fact that DelToro announced that Prometheus killed any chance of him reviving the At the Mountains of Madness movie is what makes me so bitter about all this.
http://www.deltorofilms.com/wp/forum2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=454

[Andrew]

It's sad to read people disapproving so much of this movie. Movies are popcorn entertainment, and not much more, if anything. If I held my own Lovecraft film fest, there's no question Prometheus would be front-and-center, and I think HPL himself would find the film engaging and thought-provoking. It's easily better than the overwhelming majority of films people consider "Lovecraftian". It's a big-budget slimy tentacled space monster movie that's based on a beloved HPL story, and it's a lot of creepy fun, with a generous helping of Giger design! Hello! Those facts alone make it great, IMO!

[froibo]

Don't get me wrong, in terms of popcorn entertainment I enjoyed the movie, especially that one scene that I can't mention without spoiling.  Where I disagree with you is that movies are meant to be purely mindless entertainment, I enjoy variety and what I am promised, which is why it pains me to have this movie attached to Alien and Lovecraft.  I feel like I was just drawn in and then left out in the acidic rain, much like our archaeologists.

[CMcCormack]

So one thing this movie could have done was avoid the "cosmic significance trap."  What I mean by this is that one of the hardest things for me to connect with as far as large-scale cosmic stories go is that for some reason, regardless of how vast the universe really is, humans and earth are the lynch pin to universal events. Avoiding this, and maybe treating the humans with a little less significance--even indifference--would really have driven home some of the themes they were playing with.  Instead, we ended up with the story turn of the third act that I felt was very flat and overall unsatisfying. 

Why do humans/earth always have to be directly involved?  Why can't they just be characters in the story? 

If this doesn't make sense let me know--it's late. haha  I'd be happy to clarify in the morning.

Also, "being invited to find them" is way less scary than "oh crap we accidentally found them"

[T. Kelly Lee]

So, I have to say I straight up enjoyed the film.  It was properly scary and the mythological storyline was enough to keep me interested until the end of the film - though it absolutely WAS NOT something I needed to ponder for more than fifteen minutes afterward.  Any fan of History Channel's "Ancient Aliens" will recognize this one a mile off.  That was the disappointing bit for me: "psst...god is aliens" is about the biggest copout in sci fi these days.  It's been done and done to death.  That being said, Prometheus was probably the best take on that theme I've seen in film. 

The satisfying part was, for me, seeing the backstory behind the Space Jockies and seeing it done by Scott and not the awful James Cameron.  I just cannot stand Cameron.  Really, Prometheus was a proper pre/sequel to Alien. 

Secondly, I see why Del Toro dropped ATMOM after seeing Prometheus.  It's basically the same movie.  Or at least a version of how ATMOM would have been adapted.  So, we've been saved from having to see Tom Cruise grin his was through an HPL-inspired movie.  Frankly, I'd much rather watch Noomi Rapace do anything than consort in any fashion with Atomic Tom. 

My takeaway is this: HPL was a genius.  Period.  He was a student of philosophy and science and could create a mythological worldview that was appealing...because it was so consistent and believable.  Most filmmakers, Scott included, are 14 year old boys.  They're visual artists and the stories behind their movies are nothing more than a libretto for allowing them to paint a picture with moving images.  In short, they don't do philosophy.  Thus I keep setting myself up to fail when I expect a film like Prometheus to present a rich and satisfying take on mythology. 

[Jape]

I have to admit I left the cinema feeling a little empty. Lovely effects and a few great performances (I'm looking at you Mr. Fassbender) but some plot holes and, to be very polite, patchy dialogue causing it to stumble in my mind.

Without spoiling anything, can anyone explain the film's 'prologue' as doing anything but undercutting the main revelation of the film? I doubt it would have been a mind-blowing twist but it left me detached from the shock the characters go through.

I absolutely adore Alien and tried very hard to separate the two films in my mind before heading into the cinema. The sad thing is I think I succeeded and I still felt let down. A moany list.

SPOILERS!!!

Far too many characters not fleshed out enough: whose making a noble sacrifice?
Inconsistent characters: the 'mean' punk geologist, Fassbender's rapidly changing motivations and tone (including a certain resentment that is never acted upon)
Unsympathetic characters you are expected to care for: Rapace's husband (he calls the robot slave 'boy', oh yeah I feel for you)
Huge leaps of logic: the invitation, the prologue linking to civilisations countless generations in the future that make up the 'invitation'
Shoe-horned/unsubtle plot points: theme of faith, Rapace's infertility, the life boat/auto-surgery, human-engineer connection
General plot holes: how do the first two victims get lost/no one notice, general disregard for hygiene on an alien world (can't help remember the quarantine plot point from Alien), no one notices Fassbender bringing a jar of the black goo on board/no one else considers doing it for research purposes, trying to repeatedly pet a hissing alien genital cobra(!), surprising calm and/or disinterest in most of their discoveries (giant human head, CCTV ghosts, the flickering life sign the captain doesn't mention straight away), etc. etc.

END OF SPOILERS!!!

[Eric Lofgren]

I have to disagree with the dissenting view towards this film. It was a work of genius. Admittedly, I love movies that can be dissected further after viewing and this one has it in spades. I'm personally not really seeing any plot holes of any significance in the movie. I see some unanswered questions (which again, I love) that would perhaps be explained in sequels, but nothing that contradicts what is presented in the movies storyline.

As for del Toros comments; yes, I can see exactly what he was saying. In fact, I would say that Scott has done what del Toro probably couldn't do. Del Toro isn't really the nuanced director that Scott is.

[Newton Applefig]

As for del Toros comments; yes, I can see exactly what he was saying. In fact, I would say that Scott has done what del Toro probably couldn't do. Del Toro isn't really the nuanced director that Scott is.

To comment on Del Toro:  the guy was lurching from movie to movie for a while.  He went from doing The Hobbit to Mountains of Madness to a new Godzilla (?) to whatever he is doing now in Pacific Rim

Del Toro is a talented director but he's having some kind of 2 year snit and moving from project to project.

The man was never going to circle back and do Mountains.  Even if this movie was called Prometheus: Mountains of Madness, if he really had some new take on it he could have made it again.  They are making Spider Man again, right?  If someone wanted to hit Dracula again, wold it seem so odd?

Del Toro is just saying to reinforce his choices, which he made some time ago.

There is almost no Lovecraft plot that hasn't been done, both directly and indirectly.  That's what makes him so pervasive and influential, even when people have never read his stories they steal from plots that stole from him.  If you really worry about doing something that's already been done, you won't be making a film at all of any type, ever.  It's just silly.

Although in sympathy it must be hard to have every throw away "I haven't had my coffee yet... " comment you make seized on.  I would look like a total ass all the time if people were doing that to me.  And it sort of sounds like an attempt to stop people asking him the same questions about what must be a sore spot.

[YYZ]

OK, wow, saw it, liked it, maybe loved about half of it.   so many plot holes or huge areas of nonsensical nothingness.  but the most beautiful film I've ever seen.

here's my positives, negatives and questions -

positives:
1.  gorgeous cinematography - should win that oscar from the preening self-aggrandizing dopes that give those awards
2.  cool creators/aliens
3.  neat 3D effects, the first 3D movie I have ventured to see
4.  Michael Fassbender should win the Best Supporting oscar - his performance as the android was mind-bendingly insanely awesome.  a tour de force from that guy.  (if you've not seen him in Centurion, wow, was that one also great, and frankly I hardly recognized the guy from that movie to this one, what a transformation)
5.  Charlize Theron in tight pants - yeah!
6.  the self Caesarian section Noomi does on herself to get the alien spermbaby out
7.  super cool potential story to work with

negatives:
1.  literally no story, once they get to the planet it's like the writers bailed and RS was told to "get it finished up NOW"  - I was shocked how thin the storyline was.  
2.  terrible characters - Noomi's male "partner" is the worst case of casting I've ever seen and just a dreadfully bad actor.  most of the crew behaved like teenagers and idiots, zero professionalism or seriousness considering the situation (and when they were trying to be "serious" in the storyline it just seemed cheesy somehow).  see Sunshine (Danny Boyle's space flick of recent) for what a real space crew of scientists and professionals would behave and speak.  
3.  generally bad acting, other than Noomi and Charlize and Fassbender.  it's almost like it was Fassbender's movie and all the others were basically no talent hacks of varying degree, which was very disappointing.  
4.  lame lame lame ending sets up the inevitable sequel (sigh)
5.  performance-wise, this movie was to Alien, as a Ford Focus is to a Ferrari.  I was amazed we were looking at the same man's work.  
6.  dumb explanation of the Space Jockey, no way in hell that exoskeleton is a "helmet" - that was just so nonsensical as to be silly.  don't mess with the Space Jockey I say.  

questions (aka pondering the many unexplained plot holes):
1.  why is there a giant creator head in the dome?  
2.  what is the black goo stuff?  why is there SO MUCH of it?  what is its purpose for the creators?  if this is what dissolves the creator at the start allowing his dna to seed Earth, why does this stuff not do that to every living thing it touches?  
3.  why were the Space Jockeys/creators running in fear in the dome in the holograph projection thingy?  why were they running in what RS now shows us are in their Space Jockey exo-suits, which at the end appear to be an affixed part of the seat of the spaceship?  how can it be part of the seat, but then they run around with them on?  
4.  why if the creators seed earth with their dna do they want to later come wipe it out?
5.  why would RS use a stupid TV writer from Lost?  I want to strangle the writer.  
6.  many more I cannot think of at 2am, going to bed now....

I half loved it, and half was rather disappointed.

[Eric Lofgren]

There were two key points presented in the movie that I think most of us didn't pay much attention to at the time. 1) The captain was decorating a Christmas tree because it was Dec. 25th, and 2) the bodies of the Engineers that were piled up next to the door were said to be there for about *2000* years.    

[YYZ]

There were two key points presented in the movie that I think most of us didn't pay much attention to at the time. 1) The captain was decorating a Christmas tree because it was Dec. 25th, and 2) the bodies of the Engineers that were piled up next to the door were said to be there for about *2000* years.    

how are those key points?   

I remember the second part but not the xmas tree part. 

to me it feels like just more random imagery/dialogue slapped together like many of the events in this movie, as my questions above have indicated. 

[Eric Lofgren]

Needless to say, spoilers abound in the following-





I'll try and find it and post it here, but there's a pretty in-depth analysis out there of the movie that really seems to work well. The gist of it is that the Engineers set life in motion on out planet. But rather than follow the benevolent qualities that the Engineers encode into the goo, mankind becomes overly violent. The Engineers send an emissary to Earth to try and correct things but he is killed by humans. Crucified, actually. The goo, which is extremely hyperactive, itself seems to enhance qualities that are inherent in whatever species it is subjected to. So in movie time, when the humans show up, just by being in the same space as the goo jars, the goo becomes corrupted and starts creating violent life forms. The hologram we see being enacted shows the Engineers reacting to the goo problem, which might have arisen with the Engineers having brought back human specimens to study. It becomes clear, though, that the Earth is a problem and a more purposeful return trip is set in motion for a future date. The hologram becomes a warning. Further on the Christ theme, there's even a virgin birth of sorts which Shaw has to remove from inside of her.


It is evident that there are two factions of the Engineers. In stark contrast to the Engineer we see at the beginning of the movie, who looks like a bald David, by Michelangelo, The Engineer at the end of the movie has massively altered himself from the effects of the goo, as that isn't a suit he's wearing. So he's either been mildly infected by the goo or purposely using it somehow to alter himself. There is also the discrepancy of the ship designs. The ship at the beginning almost LOOKS like a seed. The classic Leviathan ship at the end of course, couldn't be more different and menacing. So while we seem to have one group seeding life in the known cosmos, we have another one that perhaps corrects mistakes, or maybe has another more menacing agenda altogether.

Some of my thoughts-
As for the behavior of the scientists, it is possible that the goo has an effect on humans even from a distance. So that we would begin to act irrationally just in it's presence, as the goo becomes altered in ours. As for the message left on cave walls in our past, that might have been left in us to reflect on by the Engineers who hadn't foreseen the corrupt species we would later become.    

There's also the idea that the Engineers, at least the ones at LV233, have a spiritual quality to them. The large head would likely be some symbol important to them. And Holloway even says that the room they find the jars in is like a tomb. Then there's the detail of the bas relief on the wall that seems to feature a queen alien. He says this while he's standing in front of a pedestal that seems to contain a vile of green glowing green substance, which is the same stuff that David finds on wall in the installation, that appears very reactive as well. This could reveal something of the nature of the Engineers on LV233, as well as the cause of the collapse of the installations on LV233 .

        
I like this synopsis, myself. And I hope we get to see more of it in future movies. I'm tired of xenomorphs, I want to know more about the Engineers        

[starblazie]

There were two key points presented in the movie that I think most of us didn't pay much attention to at the time. 1) The captain was decorating a Christmas tree because it was Dec. 25th, and 2) the bodies of the Engineers that were piled up next to the door were said to be there for about *2000* years.    

Eric,
you are absolutely spot on with your observations; especially as 2000 years ago the Engineers were apparently planning on decimating humanity when the disaster on the planet took place.  For myself, I found Prometheus very disappointing.  What could have been a complex and great sci-fi thriller about the origins of mankind was turned into a creature feature that didn't even equal the movie that this is supposed to be a prequel too.  As far I'm concerned it should have been titled, "The Android Doesn't Die this Time."  By the way, people associated with the film are talking about a possible sequel which has potential, but after seeing how Prometheus was ruined, I don't have much hope.  Spoilers below.




Edit:  I am not sure I agree with your premise about the goo.  It is interesting that the black goo ingested by the Engineer on earth seemed to be the same stuff on the planet, LV233, but on earth it seemed to dissolve in the relatively vast quantities of water.   Also it appeared to be suspended in ice from the samples obtained by David and LV233 appears to be a mostly waterless rock.  So perhaps water changes the function of the goo by its absence or presence.  Also the differing appearance of the alien at the end of the movie may have more to do with his function as a soldier than the unintended effects of the black goo. (end of edit)

Somebody associated with the movie, I can't remember if it was the script writer or not, basically said that Christ was a emissary for the Engineers and their decision to wipe out humanity was predicated on fact that Christ was murdered.  Although one has to wonder about the Buddha, who basically taught a similar doctrine and lived to a ripe old age.

[catamount]

I saw this movie yesterday and was sadly disappointed, strangely enough, I found The Stone Tapes (see other forum thread) on youtube to be more enthralling and entertaining. I guess as I get older, my tastes in cinema really are changing.