Genus Unknown
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2012, 02:25:02 PM » |
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Very good point. I hadn't really thought about it, but in a kind of "meta" sense, I think it has to be old Ephram. If it were anyone else, Lovecraft would have gone into it in exacting detail as far back as he needed to, even if it took five or six generations.
Bob
A younger H.P. Lovecraft might have done that (like the Lovecraft that wrote "The Shunned House"), but as we near the end of his life / career, I think he's slowly getting the hang of that whole "subtlety" thing. |
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Bob Lovecraft
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2012, 03:55:21 PM » |
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One of my favorite things about this story is later on when Edward and Danforth are driving back to Arkham and Edward starts in with all of the mythos references and jargon. This was one of the first HPL stories I ever read, and that bit kind of grabbed my imagination and ran with it. Of course the ending really got me, too. But then, I was just an apt pupil at the time and not even a novice in the cult, so I can be excused for missing some of the more obvious hints at what would happen.
Bob
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If someone ever dares you to read the Necronomicon out loud... just say no.
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old book
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2012, 09:52:42 AM » |
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That leaves open the problem of the father figure, the old wizard really in control of Asenath.
Actually, by the time this story takes place, there is no Asenath anymore. She, or at least her soul, has been dead for years, leaving only her father's spirit inhabiting her body. So I'm not sure if your theory really pans out right there. Bob Well, it's not really my theory, just a possible approach. I think you're going by daylight logic, whereas the story unfolds like a dream, where things aren't settled once and for all, but happen in gestalts, or at least if I wanted to pursue this approach, I would think that. Asenath is subsumed by the wizard within the story but begins as a girl/woman. If the narrative later imposes a history where she has always been the wizard, it doesn't change her initial introduction as a female in the terms and ideas used by the subconscious. Right? Anyway, a real Jungian would be able to dance around that fact. I'm not qualified  |
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We live on a placid Rhode Island and Providence Plantations of ignorance in the midst of the black seas of an infinity of dark foreigners, and it was not meant that we should voyage too far.
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Bob Lovecraft
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2012, 01:58:02 PM » |
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Just finished listening to Episode 100 and I have to say that I really liked it, although I am sorry to hear that Thursday night is no longer Lady's Night at Miskatonic Books.  I was looking forward to getting my wife all loopy at the web site and then feeding her day-old popcorn. Oh well. As for the podcast, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I have to say that when I originally read this story, I was struck by what had happened to Azaneth when she was a girl. I have to assume, based on "her" age during the story, that she had been fairly young, maybe 15 or 16, when Ephram did what he did to her. To me, that makes it all the more horrible that not only did he prey on this person, but she was a girl, and a young girl, and his daughter. It hit me just how wrong that violation had been, and really struck a chord with me. I think that this was one of the few times that I really could feel for one of Lovecraft's characters, and it was handled so tersely in the story that even THAT was a bit of a slap in the characters face: she had been so insignificant that even the author thought she was barely worth mentioning. Very disturbing and particularly effective. Also, I have to agree that I felt bad for both Dan and Edward for all of the same reasons Chad and Chris mention in their review. Again, this was one of Lovecraft's few stories where I genuinely feel for the characters, and I never really thought about why until this podcast mentioned that it was a friendship based on mutual affection, not mutual academic pursuit. The letter at the end of the story always gets to me for it's forlorn resignation. It's almost like a suicide note. Anyway, gotta run. Bob |
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If someone ever dares you to read the Necronomicon out loud... just say no.
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Phil
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« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 12:58:48 AM » |
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"A man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man." Lovecraft's version of Tootsie!  |
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Be sure to check out my cool weird little books @ http://www.lulu.com - search under Jensen for "Lot's Wife" and "What the Dirt Wants" - hurry, something bigger and far worse will be waking soon! |
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Bulbatron
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« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 11:44:38 AM » |
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One hundred episodes!
Very good indeed, as usual. I think these episodes have given me a bit of extra insight into this story, which for the record, I rather like.
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old book
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« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 12:34:30 PM » |
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Congratulations on 100 podcrafts!
Stupid question: what's the proper New England (New English?) pronunciation of Ephraim? Is it two sllables or three? I know a guy in Israel named Efraim and it's "Efrym" but not sure about the historical American way of saying it (Ephra-eem?).
As for Azanoth, I think Bob has hit upon the solution to the problem plagueing me about why HPL used her name. Bob's misspelling brought it home. It's because it sounds and looks a little like Azathoth, duh.
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We live on a placid Rhode Island and Providence Plantations of ignorance in the midst of the black seas of an infinity of dark foreigners, and it was not meant that we should voyage too far.
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Chris Lackey
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« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2012, 12:52:50 PM » |
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"A man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man." Lovecraft's version of Tootsie! More like Victor/Victoria! |
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Chris Lackey
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2012, 12:56:03 PM » |
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Sorry about the whole 'oriental' thing. I actually knew that. I just forgot all about it. My brain can only hold so much. All I can say is... DUH!
CJL
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Phil
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« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2012, 01:18:52 PM » |
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"A man pretending to be a woman pretending to be a man." Lovecraft's version of Tootsie! More like Victor/Victoria! Doh! Thanks, that's the movie I was thinking of. Sorry, I wasn't in my "right body" at the time  |
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 01:31:54 PM by Phil »
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Be sure to check out my cool weird little books @ http://www.lulu.com - search under Jensen for "Lot's Wife" and "What the Dirt Wants" - hurry, something bigger and far worse will be waking soon! |
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old book
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2012, 02:05:01 PM » |
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"Oriental" isn't a pejorative or insulting except in some very narrow uses to refer to individuals who prefer to go under other labels. "Orient" and "oriental" is perfectly good for referring to the traditional European bias against the East and its alleged despotism, fatalism, fleshpots, et al. It's the right psychosensory/hallucinatory term, in fact. I believe it was used this way in the 'podcraft. "Oriental laundromat" might be borderline, if that's supposed to mean it's owned by Chinese people. I didn't think that's what was going on, and getting all the ethnonyms perfectly uninsulting in a show about H P Lovecraft is a waste of time anyway. My two cents.
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We live on a placid Rhode Island and Providence Plantations of ignorance in the midst of the black seas of an infinity of dark foreigners, and it was not meant that we should voyage too far.
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Yojimbo
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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 03:07:16 PM » |
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I live in New England but speak American neutral: I'd use two silly bulls to get "Ef-rem," but I'm probably wrong.
Congratulations on 100 episodes! Sounds like you guys have started to seriously think about What's Next, and I'm sure we're all curious to hear what that might be.
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YunusWesley
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 08:30:51 PM » |
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I live in New England but speak American neutral: I'd use two silly bulls to get "Ef-rem," but I'm probably wrong.
I agree; Ef-rem, ef-rum. But I wouldn't be surprised at "rame" or a broad "raam" either. A typical Biblical name in General American English, a language much fertilized on reading a set of names romanized out of Hebrew, the natural or preferred pronunciation being a matter of taste and affiliation. |
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Bob Lovecraft
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« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2012, 09:08:55 AM » |
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Bob's misspelling brought it home. It's because it sounds and looks a little like Azathoth, duh.
Hey!  Bob |
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If someone ever dares you to read the Necronomicon out loud... just say no.
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old book
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« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2012, 12:35:36 PM » |
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Bob, you did it, you solved the nagging mystery for me. As for spelling, ah, who cares, it's supposed to be Assenec anyway, transliterated from Coptic to Greek to Latin.
Thanks to everyone for helping me on the American pronunciation of Ephraim. I wonder if anyone anywhere in the world mispronounces it as I do, Ephra'im.
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We live on a placid Rhode Island and Providence Plantations of ignorance in the midst of the black seas of an infinity of dark foreigners, and it was not meant that we should voyage too far.
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