What scares you? Discussing types of horror in fiction

[T. Kelly Lee]

Speaking of horror and what scares you, does anyone else have a part of themselves that they are so afraid of (or a fear so great) that they don't even want to admit it to themselves?

Oh yes.  In fact, I've always thought that if I could "open those gates" and let my imagination wander into that region of my mind I could summon up the kinds of images and scenarios that haunt my dreams and that I could use to become a much better horror writer.  But I'm frankly terrified of going there.  When I have dreams that take me to that dark part of my psyche I try to push them out rather than cogitate on them. 

[Ruth - CthulhuChick]

I definitely have parts of me that scare me. I think maybe the best horror taps into those.

[Bob Lovecraft]

I definitely have parts of me that scare me. I think maybe the best horror taps into those.

You mean like the idea that if you were pushed in the right direction at the right time, or in the right way, you would do things that scare the hell out of you? I've heard that described as the "devil inside" idea. But despite the cliche of it, I think it is a frightening thing. But tapping into that in horror is pretty damn hard, since those things are different for each person.

I think everyone has a place inside of them that they fear to tread in, and the idea of going there, at least to me, is as frightening as it is stupid. There are reasons we avoid that area of ourselves, good reasons. When people try to make you access those places, I don't think they can be prepared for what comes back. I've seen some of these new age types try to force people to confront their inner darkness as a road to healing themselves, but again, stupid idea. If you have locked something away that tightly, then it's pretty obvious that you were unable to vanquish it. So leave it the hell alone.

Bob

[T. Kelly Lee]

Of course we're all animals at heart and we, like all other animals, have a part of us that's driven by our "lizard brain."  I like to watch cats to get insight in this.  It's obvious when a stray cat is killing a bird or mouse for food that he's actually enjoying himself.  The act of doing the deed clearly gives them pleasure.  We humans draw a funny line of demarcation - it's entertaining to go deer hunting, but it's not supposed to be entertaining to work in a slaughter house.  

I think of the old man from Picture in the House.  After looking at the picture, killing the sheep was "kinda more fun."  Yeah, that's a guy that's gone back to his primal animalism.  

For me the raw violence of the mob doesn't scare me nearly as much as what an artful and brilliant mind would do if all their cultural inhibitions were suddenly torn away.  I ask myself what would I do?  What would happen if someone raped and killed my wife?  Would I be happy to let the justice system handle it - or would I be pushed too far and want to take my own revenge?  I'm arrogant and confident enough to believe I could get away with it.  But how twisted would I get if I opened that door and all my knowledge of anatomy, psychology, and history come flooding in to inform the final act?  And ultimately, would taking revenge be like slaughtering an animal --- or would it actually be fun?

Not to sound like a creeper - I'm actually not a killer.  Hell, I'm a vegetarian and a pacifist!  But I've never been pushed.  I think that's the thing that scares me about my own psyche.  

[Inner Prop]

I'm not so much afraid of what I would do, I'm afraid of what I know, or what I could know/understand; the real meaning behind some things. 

Partially this is because I feel like if I think of these things they will become too comonplace and they should always remain something I'm slightly afraid of because they're dangerous.  It's kind of like petting a tiger.

Partially it's because of the thought process it might start.

Partially it's because some things must be done and not thought about.

One of the new thoughts I had reading the responses was that it might be like rooting a phone or computer.  There could be very great power and control there, but at what price failure?  Could you really really control it?  Once done could you undo it?

[T. Kelly Lee]

I'm not so much afraid of what I would do, I'm afraid of what I know, or what I could know/understand; the real meaning behind some things. 

I know as a fact that this is a real problem for some people.  I don't talk about my job a lot on line, but I work for the feds know things that are not common knowledge - or that are different from common knowledge.  You would expect that, right?  But some people just can't stand that aspect of the job.  Drives them crazy - sometimes literally.  Doesn't bother me in the least. 

[JazFusion]

I have an irrational fear of ghosts. Not that I particularly believe in them, but the notion that you can't see them or kill them unsettles me.

I also fear old religion type brainwashing. I think a perfect example of that would be "Antichrist" with Willem Dafoe. I love that movie, but it's so psychologically terrifying. It takes a few days for me to be right again after seeing it.

The gross out aspect of horror doesn't do much for me. It can be done well (Antichrist had a lot of genital mutilation), but I think the psychology behind why the mutilation is being done is far more terrifying than the actual gore itself. And also, that we are all capable of such actions. Physically and mentally. What would it take for any of us to suddenly snap? Or worse...to believe that the carnage we are doing is right and just.

[Inner Prop]

The way I figure ghosts is this:  ghosts are people minus the body.  I'm a person WITH a body so whatever they can do I can do and more.  Ghosts don't scare me at all.

There is also the fact that I don't believe in them, that helps.

I can see how you could think of a body and life as a weakness, something precious you could lose that they don't have to worry about. Like a dependant, if the bad guy can go after your child then no matter how tough you are, you are weak.  I never thought of it that way, thanks for that shadow of doubt.

Still, if ghosts are so powerful and dangerous then why is it that when you go to find them and prove that they exist it is either impossible (my opinion) or darn near impossible?

What's scarier / more dangerous? 
Hitler vs Hitler's ghost
Jack the Ripper vs Jack's ghost
Osama Bin Laden vs Osama's ghost

[T. Kelly Lee]

What would it take for any of us to suddenly snap? Or worse...to believe that the carnage we are doing is right and just.

I think we were meant to understand that the wife in Antichrist was already truly mad before her son even died.  No spoilers, but remember the shoes thing?  Ugh.  One wonders if she was born a psycho (psychos ARE born, not made) or if her studies and her experience with her kid and husband drove her mad.  There's a major Lovecraftian trope in there - too much of the wrong kind of research will drive you insane.  This character is almost a reflection of Crawford Tillinghast. 

[T. Kelly Lee]

What's scarier / more dangerous? 
Hitler vs Hitler's ghost
Jack the Ripper vs Jack's ghost
Osama Bin Laden vs Osama's ghost

Big Foot's ghost. 

[JazFusion]

What would it take for any of us to suddenly snap? Or worse...to believe that the carnage we are doing is right and just.

I think we were meant to understand that the wife in Antichrist was already truly mad before her son even died.  No spoilers, but remember the shoes thing?  Ugh.  One wonders if she was born a psycho (psychos ARE born, not made) or if her studies and her experience with her kid and husband drove her mad.  There's a major Lovecraftian trope in there - too much of the wrong kind of research will drive you insane.  This character is almost a reflection of Crawford Tillinghast. 

But the wife had taken the son to study with her before the opening scene, and that's where the shoes thing happened. I think it was implied that being there, studying the masochism of women for her thesis, and the presence of the "Sisters" is what drove her mad. I don't want to delve into spoilers, but she looked at her son before The Awful Thing That Happened, and didn't say anything.

I definitely think it was more Lovecraftian - that arcane knowledge can drive you to madness; rather than her being born into madness. And that we'll never know if she were born insane, until we study what she studied. But then it, too, will drive us to madness, and everyone else will be left wondering if we were truly mad to begin with. That's what is terrifying and intriguing to me. Is it really another greater power, or is it just us? Do we see the mad men, or do the mad men see us?

[JazFusion]

The way I figure ghosts is this:  ghosts are people minus the body.  I'm a person WITH a body so whatever they can do I can do and more.  Ghosts don't scare me at all.

There is also the fact that I don't believe in them, that helps.

I can see how you could think of a body and life as a weakness, something precious you could lose that they don't have to worry about. Like a dependant, if the bad guy can go after your child then no matter how tough you are, you are weak.  I never thought of it that way, thanks for that shadow of doubt.

Still, if ghosts are so powerful and dangerous then why is it that when you go to find them and prove that they exist it is either impossible (my opinion) or darn near impossible?

What's scarier / more dangerous? 
Hitler vs Hitler's ghost
Jack the Ripper vs Jack's ghost
Osama Bin Laden vs Osama's ghost

This is why I said "irrational fear". I think, for me, it's more that there is an unknown out there. Like the ocean. What lies beneath its depths? Logically, nothing that will ever harm us. But there's always the nagging doubt. I surmise a part of this is key to our survival. We are curious as a species, but fear keeps us from doing stupid things.

[T. Kelly Lee]

I definitely think it was more Lovecraftian - that arcane knowledge can drive you to madness; rather than her being born into madness. And that we'll never know if she were born insane, until we study what she studied. But then it, too, will drive us to madness, and everyone else will be left wondering if we were truly mad to begin with. That's what is terrifying and intriguing to me. Is it really another greater power, or is it just us? Do we see the mad men, or do the mad men see us?

To get a little serious, this reminds me of a convo I had with my dad years ago, who was a Viet Nam vet in some of the worst of the fighting.  I asked him how he'd held up so well over there and suffered so little trauma.  His response: "Son, it wasn't what the people over there had done to them that bothers them, it's what they did to others.  I got no regrets." 

Honestly, it's just us.  There's no morals in the jungle and we humans are only a few steps away from slipping back there at any given time.  But then we find that we left a piece of ourselves behind. 

That's why the government spends big bucks to make sure everyone they give high security clearances to are nice and sane.   If you're a little on the edge, cognitive dissonance can melt you down. 

[Bob Lovecraft]

I also fear old religion type brainwashing. I think a perfect example of that would be "Antichrist" with Willem Dafoe. I love that movie, but it's so psychologically terrifying. It takes a few days for me to be right again after seeing it.

Ok, JazFusion, you are now on my list of people not to listen to any more. I watched "Antichrist" the other day, and all I have to say is that I really wish my eyes could vomit. As good as the movie was, and it was good, some of the self-mutilation scenes just freaked me out. I honestly don't know how you can watch that more than once. OUCH!

I will say that I loved the Prologue of the movie. It was so well done that it pulled me right into the rest of the film. The rest of it, though was a bit flat. I kept wondering what the hell was up with the husband. He seemed like he just made things worse and worse as the movie went on.

Bob

P.S. - Is there an unrated version, because I may have seen that one; I have no idea why it wasn't rated X.

[ragnarhedin]

A lot of things scare me, which probably doesn't set me too terribly far apart from the average person.

I'm greatly unnerved by the concept of permanent body modifications (even the idea of getting a tattoo makes me nervous), so the idea of any damage or alteration to my body beyond my control really terrifies me.  In fact most of my fears stem from a loss or lack of control and, for me, fiction can best create that sensation by dealing with large existential issues of hopelessness.