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Author Topic: Non-Euclidean  (Read 5192 times)
starblazie
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« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2012, 09:25:04 PM »

Interesting thread.  I interpret non-euclidean with HPL to mean a structure in which the physics/mathematics of our world no longer apply and maybe extradimensional as well. 
I think a fairly good example can be found in "The Call of Cthulhu."

Quote
...and Johansen swears that he (Parker) was swallowed up by an angle of masonry which shouldn't have been there; an an angle which was acute, but behaved as if it were obtuse.

On a side note, I happened to come across some pictures of the Guangzhou Opera House.   A little dark paint, some green glowing fungus, rip out the wiring, add a Cyclopean idol or two, and throw some shoggoths in....

http://europaconcorsi.com/projects/163786-Guangzhou-Opera-House
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LambethWarp
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« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2012, 12:14:14 PM »

Just skim-read this thread - I have to say, the maths/physics/cosmology stuff in HPL is one of my favourite of his tropes. This is probably not unconnected with that fact that my degree is in theoretical physics. Smiley There's just so, so much great stuff about it in his writing - not just R'lyeh but the 'Witch-House', all the stuff about conic sections and so on in 'Through the Gates of the Silver Key', just brilliant.

As several people have said already, we live in a universe that is itself non-Euclidean - it's just that on Earth, where gravitational fields are very small, space is locally very close to Euclidean. But space-time is anything but Euclidean (or rather, Minkowskian, which is the 4-d analogue of Euclidean) at cosmic scales, because it is expanding.

Love all this stuff - I'll write more later.
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« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2012, 12:29:41 PM »

I don't think the non-Euclidean geometry of Lovecraft is the same non-Euclidean geometry that our mathematicians study. "Non-Euclidean," after all, is a negative term. The thing Lovecraft uses the term to refer to is something much stranger and more exotic than what real-world mathematicians use it for. A German man could quite accurately be described as "non-American," but so could a 40 foot-tall three-headed fungus monster from a sunless rock outside the known universe. In this analogy, the regular non-Euclidean geometry that mathematicians study is the German guy. The geometry Lovecraft's talking about is the fungus monster.
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LambethWarp
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« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2012, 01:49:05 PM »

Oh, for sure, yes. Non-Euclidean spaces had been pretty thoroughly investigated in the 1860s by Riemann and were then shown to form the basis of gravitation and cosmology by Einstein ca. 1916. But still, I think there's a hell of a lot of potential, from a 'cosmicist' POV, even in these 'vanilla' non-Euclidean spaces, simply inasmuch as they imply a universe whose basic structure and physical shape is quite literally impossible for us to imagine. That's without even going into the question of "If our universe is really a four-dimensional structure, whereas we previously thought it was three-dimensional, what might be lurking out there in the fifth - or sixth, seventh, nth - dimension?"

"Not in the spaces we know, but between them, They walk serene and primal, undimensioned and to us unseen"

(yes, that's from memory, sue me Wink)

I often wonder what HPL would have made of modern physics and cosmology, I mean extra dimensions and crazily convoluted superstrings are pretty freakin' Lovecraftian, aren't they? And it's not just in theoretical physics, either - an ex-girlfriend of mine a few years back did her PhD on a search for "extra dimensions" at Fermilab (the big particle physics lab outside Chicago). One of these days I'm going to write a story about some physicists who actually succeed in finding these dimensions, and what happens when Something starts to seep into our little world - our "guarded threshold" - from the Outside...

Vital reading: "Exotic spheres, or why 4-dimensional space is a crazy place" - http://plus.maths.org/content/richard-elwes (executive summary: why Yog-Sothoth is a hypersphere Cheesy)
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LambethWarp
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« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2012, 02:21:36 PM »

This is good, too: letter from early C19 Hungarian mathematician Farkas Bolyai to his son Janos, also a mathematician, about NEG...

    “You must not attempt this approach to parallels. I know this way to its very end. I have traversed this bottomless night, which extinguished all light and joy from my life. I entreat you, leave the science of parallels alone…I thought I would sacrifice myself for the sake of the truth. I was ready to become a martyr who would remove the flaw from geometry and return it purified to mankind. I accomplished monstrous, enormous labours; my creations are far better than those of others and yet I have not achieved complete satisfaction. For here it is true that si paullum a summo discessit, vergit ad imum*. I turned back when I saw that no man can reach the bottom of this night. I turned back unconsoled, pitying myself and all mankind … I have travelled past all reefs of this infernal Dead Sea and have always come back with broken mast and torn sail. The ruin of my disposition and my fall date back to this time. I thoughtlessly risked my life and happiness — aut Caesar aut nihil**.”

*"If a little has separated from the uppermost, it turns to the lowest"

**"Either a Caesar, or nothing"

(quote taken from http://lovecraftismissing.com/?p=2610)

If I may pimp some of my own writing here, some of you might find this interesting: http://dointhelambethwarp.wordpress.com/2011/05/15/lovecraft-cyclonopedia-and-materialist-horror-4/
« Last Edit: May 04, 2012, 03:16:26 PM by LambethWarp » Logged

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« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2012, 02:40:30 PM »

... did you mean to quote yourself?
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LambethWarp
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« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2012, 03:26:09 PM »

Gah, I'm always doing that! Sorry. Why do the 'edit' and 'quote' buttons have to be next to each other?

But anyway - thoughts? HPL + theoretical physics = too cool for words, in my book...

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