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Author Topic: Episode 114: In the Walls of Eryx (with Kenneth Sterling)  (Read 2731 times)
Chris Lackey
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« Reply #60 on: June 20, 2012, 05:16:48 PM »

Alternative theory: this is a bad story that doesn't make a lot of sense because it wasn't thought out very well.

I think you're on to something.
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Graf von Altenberg Ehrenstein
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« Reply #61 on: June 20, 2012, 06:42:27 PM »


Stanfield starts off the thing sounding like he is typing up a report somewhere safe, when actually he is getting ready for his death. 


Not quite. When the guy starts his report, he `s absoultely convinced that he will make it out and he continues to be until the last night. Same for the gas mask issue.



Alternative theory: this is a bad story that doesn't make a lot of sense because it wasn't thought out very well.


Still another theory: You guys are a bunch of nitpickers.
No. Seriously. everyone complaining about the inconsistent physics of that structure is right. When I first read this story I was beginning to work on a degree as a construction engineer (hope to be done by 2030 or so) and a thing like that should hit me square in the face. But for some reason that never occured to me before Chris brought it up in the podcast.
So that `s a bit similar to The Temple which takes place in anything else but a possible WWI submarine, and in both cases the author (I assume that on behalf of Lovecraft) was aware of that an didn `t care because he wanted to write a fantasy story , not a technical essay. For the respective reader this means simply: Either it works for you or it doesn `t.
I had a similar issue when reading Cthulhu: How can one run away from a thing that is a miles high walking mountain? Or how can it chase people? And what happens to a nearby steamboat when such a thing enters the water?
Now do the physics on that! 

The physics are all wrong because he is really suffering from the hallucinations of the mirage-plant in symbiosis with carnivorous skorah plants in the vicinity.

Maybe he even popped some Big Eyed Beans from Venus...

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« Reply #62 on: June 20, 2012, 06:54:11 PM »

Or it could be they don't talk because they are an entire culture of mimes.

Hence the invisible walls.
This is my favorite theory!
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« Reply #63 on: June 20, 2012, 06:58:10 PM »

Oh man, I had to read this three times! But now it all makes sense. They `re just mad because no one ever drops a coin in their hat...
« Last Edit: June 20, 2012, 07:10:48 PM by Graf von Altenberg Ehrenstein » Logged
Newton Applefig
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« Reply #64 on: June 20, 2012, 09:08:02 PM »


Still another theory: You guys are a bunch of nitpickers.


Hey, we are indeed all nitpickers.  I, myself, am nit ridden, and pick upon the nits on the nits of other nitpickers.  I'm like, totallly meta-nit.

I mean, solidarity.  I didn't see the problems either.  Lovecraft is a nebulous writer.  I don't think the story is all bad.  And, yeah, it is Lovecraft so how much logic can you expect?

But, well, I don't think that's quite totally fair.  I look at it more.... umm, how do I say this?

Imagine you find a motorcycle.  Not just a motorcycle, one of these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brough_Superior_SS100

It gives you a great ride.  You love it.  But you hear the drive train on this particular unit occasionally locks up, and hurled one particular pod-cast host down the highway at very high speeds like Steve Austin, while the other enjoys the smooth ride through the English countryside.

One guy is pissed and road burned, and stalks away shaking his fist vigorously.  The other one tells all his mates down at the pub what fun wearing a silly hat and googles.

Of course, i want to know what made half the riders end up in the ditch when the other half are grinning ear to ear with bugs in their teeth and all.

I can enjoy it while admitting it's not perfect and it's an antique, so it's design is dated, and it was machined individually, not mass produced and subjected to modern QA standards ( like a writing partner who is of drinking age, or an editor that does his job ).  I can also take it apart with no disrespect.

I personally think there is a lot of good.  The overall concept is cool.  I think some of the narrative runs like a dream.  I especially like how the doom this guy is caught up in is so simple, it might be Athenian.  I like the themes.  I especially like how everyone sees different motivations in the actions of Lizards, and who / what / how the walls are.

But, you know, this is sort of a foray into the "hard science fiction" realm rather than fantasy.  I think it triggers certain reader expectations of internal consistency that were violated a bit.

I guess my point is I hope you look at this not so much as nit picking, but as a bunch of people in a garage who all have their own opinions.  The bike they just disassembled is in pieces on the ground and some of them are disappointed in it.

I hope especially you see that someone who was dragged 200' by a plot device that didn't work is going to have a hard time seeing anything but junk, just like the guy who had fun feels the Stanfield types "Oh, we should have got a DuBois bike instead, this thing is crap..." are taking something away from them by disrespecting the new ride.

I think we've all been there on some story the rest of the world loved right?  Maybe not this one, but there is probably a murder "mystery" that didn't seem so mysterious to you personally, or a horror movie that seemed more like just a "horrible movie".  I mean, you can't expect someone who feels that way to praise it after slogging through with it in frustration.

I'm a mechanic, so i want to know why it works sometimes and not others.  I actually think the problems with this thing were very small.  I think I said that before...

You could even have fixed the walls in a standard Lovecraftian way. 

Stanfield:  "No, these walls... I can't speak of it, they defied all laws of physics and reason... no, it is madness.  The mud, they were in the mud, all in the mud, and the walls... Oh, god, the WALLS.  No, no, some things are better left beneath.  May such blessed gods of oblivion as there are protect us all from what I saw trying to dig under those hideous, mind blasting walls that were my own ancestors!"


There.  Fixed it.
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RedRetroRobot
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« Reply #65 on: June 21, 2012, 05:23:06 AM »

Saw this, thought someone else might like it, too:



Looks like a Danish translation of the story. Brilliant art. Interesting how they focused on the crystal rather than the wall predicament.
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« Reply #66 on: June 21, 2012, 07:10:00 AM »

Newton, that was deep. 

I didn't read the story itself so I'm just walking into the garage after you guys have taken it all apart and are arguing over it, so my opinion about what pieces go where is suspect from the start (but I'm not afraid of sharing it).

I think this may be the reason more people aren't writers themselves.  They look at all the pieces spread out on the floor and think that they could never put such a thing together so they give up.
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« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2012, 01:24:41 PM »


Looks like a Danish translation of the story. Brilliant art. Interesting how they focused on the crystal rather than the wall predicament.

Yes, Danish. I posted a similar cover for a Danish translation of SOOT in that episode thread, too. I guess they focused on the crystal because of the problems inherent in drawing invisible walls, but my lord that crystal sure looks like a glowing potato to me. I love that style myself, the Heavy Metal 80s cartoon look. What worries me most is that since Danish translations exist, it is perhaps only a matter of time till someone translates those translations into Kalaallisut/Greenlandic, although apparently the public library in Nuuk/Godthaab has very few books in Greenlandic even now for younger readers.

http://knr.gl/da/nyheder/mangel-på-grønlandske-børnebøger

Happy Greenlandic National Day, btw.
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« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2012, 06:05:01 PM »

@ Newton Applefig: Don `t get me wrong, I enjoy this discussion a great deal and I got a lot out of it.
I `m totally with you. Sometimes you watch a movie or read a story and something annoys you in the first minutes - the thing is done for you. Automatically you will belittle the cool parts and eagerly belabor the bad parts. My reaction could possibly have been totally different if I just read that thing on an other day.
Nothing pulled my hardcore science fiction trigger for example - otherwise I would have ran away screaming!

That `s one awesome motörbike! If I could once... Ah, I saw the picture, now I can die happy!
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Newton Applefig
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« Reply #69 on: June 21, 2012, 07:26:13 PM »


That `s one awesome motörbike! If I could once... Ah, I saw the picture, now I can die happy!

Isn't it though?  But once I have one, I will refuse to die.
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