Cthulhu mythos clarification: Elder Thing vs Flying Polyp

[Ser Pounce-A-Lot]

Hi 

I was reading The Shadow Out Of Time today, and then did some research on Elder Things and Flying Polyps. It is confusing the heck out of me. OK, here goes:

- Flying Polyps are mentioned in The Shadow Out Of Time where they are called a horrible elder race of half polypous, utterly alien entities, as well as being referred to as Elder Beings AND Elder Things in the text. They came to earth 750million years ago.

- Elder Things are described in At The Mountains Of Madness, and they came to earth 1billion years ago. According to wikipedia: The Elder Things are known to have warred against the star-spawn of Cthulhu, the Great Race of Yith, and the Mi-go

- Wikipedia has this information on the Flying Polyps: On Earth, they built basalt cities with high windowless towers. When they attempted to colonize the oceans, the polyps were driven back by the Elder Things. Thereafter, they restricted their habitats to the surface world.


Can you understand my confusion? I can find no reference to the war between Polyps and Elder Things (I know in the Shadow Out Of Time that the Polyps kicked the Yiths butts eventually), and I'm further confused by the fact that Polyps seem to be referred to as 'Elder Things' in The Shadow Out Of Time.

Also, when did the Elder Things war against the Yiths?

Everywhere I look seems to describe (and paint) the 2 creatures as separate beings.

Anyone able to alleviate my confusion?

Have a great day

P.S. I hope this is in the right category

[Lambda]

Okay, let's start with the realization that HPL was pretty inconsistent when it came to naming his monstrous civilizations. He uses the term Elder Things for the polyps from SooT as well as for the Old Ones from AtMoM.

As far as I know, it's like this:

AtMoM Elder Things = AtMoM Old Ones = SooT Old Ones = what we call the Elder Things.
SooT Elder Things = what we call flying polyps (where did that name come from, anyway?)
AtMoM Elder Things /= SooT Elder Things

I can find no reference to the war between Polyps and Elder Things (I know in the Shadow Out Of Time that the Polyps kicked the Yiths butts eventually)

Shadow Out Of Time was written three years after Mountains Of Madness, so the polyps can't be in the AtMoM description of the Elder Things' history. I couldn't find any reference to polyps (or Elder Things) warring against Old Ones in SooT. I'm not aware of any other HPL source that mentions that history, so I guess there was no war between them.

Also, when did the Elder Things war against the Yiths?

I'm not sure. If you mean the AtMoM creatures, there is no date or time stated in the story, though there is a reference to the Great Race battling Old Ones.
If you mean the polyps, the Great Race fled before the war could really start, if I remember correctly.

The Elder Things are known to have warred against the star-spawn of Cthulhu, the Great Race of Yith, and the Mi-go

Elder Things meaning the AtMoM Old Ones? Yes, that's correct. The first and third are supported by AtMoM, the second is supported by SooT.

When they attempted to colonize the oceans, the polyps were driven back by the Elder Things. Thereafter, they restricted their habitats to the surface world.

I can't find any evidence for that. And the wikipedia article doesn't give a source for that.

I hope I could clear this up a little. If I made any errors, please correct me - it's been a while since I've read SooT.

[Ser Pounce-A-Lot]

Thanks for the response

That does actually clear things up a bit. Categorizing them in such a way does make sense, and the only thing that still causes confusion is the "When they attempted to colonize the oceans, the polyps were driven back by the Elder Things" line from Wikipedia, which has no source, as you say.

So, perhaps the war of the Polyps vs Elder Things was from another Mythos author, or perhaps from the Roleplaying game only?

To summarise the known Lovecraft wars (correct me if I'm wrong):

1) Polyps vs Great Race
2) Great Race vs Cthulhu spawn
3) Great Race vs Elder Things
4) Elder Things vs Chulhu Spawn
5) Elder Things vs Mi-go


But, yeah, no Polyps vs Elder Things in the Lovecraft stories, that seems certain.

[Ser Pounce-A-Lot]

Just found something else to confuse things further:

http://www.dracandros.com/Jebgarg/Nidoking/cthuchrono.htm

750 million years ago: The Flying Polyps arrive on Earth, and build their basalt towers on the land. They try to expand into the oceans, sparking a bitter war with the Elder Things. Eventually, the Elder Things are victorious. ("The Shadow Out of Time," Lovecraft; "Timeline of the Cthulhu Mythos," Appel)

The references are to SOoT & to a timeline in "Encyclopedia Cthulhiana". Anyone have the encyclopedia that can check the reference? Or has anyone read SOoT recently and found the passage to which the timeline is referring?

Dying to get to the bottom of this

[Kaelestes]

1) Polyps vs Great Race
2) Great Race vs Cthulhu spawn
3) Great Race vs Elder Things
4) Elder Things vs Chulhu Spawn
5) Elder Things vs Mi-go

You forgot Moon Kitties vs. Anyone Stupid Enough to Cross Them.

[Ser Pounce-A-Lot]

You forgot Moon Kitties vs. Anyone Stupid Enough to Cross Them.

LMAO!!!