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Author Topic: Episode 71 - The Mound, Part 2  (Read 1080 times)
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« on: March 10, 2011, 02:41:15 PM »

My fond memories of this story are evaporating fast.  Cry

Anyway, there's a silver lining: the next story coming up is "Medusa's Coil," which will make the bad parts of "The Mound" look AWESOME by comparison. Hell, there are things in "Medusa's Coil" that will make "The Electric Executioner" look good.

And after that, it's "Whisperer in Darkness" time, MOTHERFHTAGN.  Grin
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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 02:46:09 PM »

Welcome back, guys! That was a funny story about the uncle who shuns computers and makes strange jokes upon his mother's death. But hey, what can you do, it's a dark world, and a little laughter never makes it very much darker! I wish I had an uncle like that, anyway.

I didn't care for the Mound to begin with, but you've probably done it justice. More justice than it deserved, I mean, er, well, you know what I mean. Gave it more attention than it merited. More mercy than it derserved. Something like that. Just wanted to say welcome back. It seems like you were gone a long time.
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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 05:12:55 PM »

Just wanted to repost this since I posted it a couple days ago at the end of the first thread for "The Mound," and because I'm egotistical like that  Grin.

My reaction to "The Mound" follows basically what Chris and Chad said in the podcast - it pulls you in with some frightening, incomprehensible, and original suggestions only to veer off into an overlong and boring recitation of facts. That said, there are still quite a few things I liked about it outside of the first chapter.

For instance (brace yourselves, this is a long one):

Many, however, chose to die after a while; since despite the cleverest efforts to invent new pleasures, the ordeal of consciousness became too dull for sensitive souls—especially those in whom time and satiation had blinded the primal instincts and emotions of self-preservation.

This is a great expression of Lovecraft's atheism. It's something any skeptic has to confront when thinking about immortality and the afterlife. No matter what kind of pleasures or experiences are open to you, they'll inevitably lose their appeal. The loss of those "primal instincts and emotions" which result from our mortality and in many ways define us might be an unwelcome change - in becoming immortal we would likely lose important parts of our identity, only to be trapped with this new identity for eternity. And being confined to your own consciousness - your own psychological continuity throughout life (and afterlife) - would eventually be so maddening that death would be a welcome alternative.

Another thing that's cool about "The Mound" is the connections to other stories. Maybe I misread it, but it seemed to imply that the four-legged reptilian inhabitants of Yoth were the same creatures whose ghosts appeared in "The Nameless City." The inhabitants of K'n-yan once lived on the surface before going underground. It's not a stretch to believe the reptilian creatures in Yoth once lived above ground at Irem, as "The Nameless City" suggested. And their ghostly images that come out at night mirror what happens with the people of K'n-yan at the end of "The Mound." Maybe the Yothians knew how to "dematerialize" also, and that's why their ghostly images are still visible in the ruins at Irem.

I also found it interesting how Cthulhu (or Tulu) was revered as a "spirit of universal harmony" by the inhabitants of K'n-yan. With their superhuman abilities (immortality, telepathy, teleportation, etc.) it's interesting how they (or their ancestors) view Cthulhu in such stark contrast to your average impotent and insignificant human. I hate moral relativism but found that interesting nonetheless.

Another passage:

Rationalism degenerated more and more into fanatical and orgiastic superstition, centring in a lavish adoration of the magnetic Tulu-metal, and tolerance steadily dissolved into a series of frenzied hatreds, especially toward the outer world of which the scholars were learning so much from him.

This might be more evidence of Lovecraft's xenophobia/racism waning a bit. The disparaging talk of "frenzied hatreds" replacing a former tolerance of the outside world could reflect Lovecraft's own re-evaluation of his views on race, ethnicity, or class. Here's a quote from Lovecraft about how writing letters broadened his worldview, although I don't know when it was written or if it syncs up with this period of his career.

"I found myself opened up to dozens of points of view which would otherwise never have occurred to me. My understanding and sympathies were enlarged, and many of my social, political, and economic views were modified as a consequence of increased knowledge."

While reading "The Mound" I also wondered if his talk about the society's decadence as a result of machinery (which was then reflected in their "geometrical" art) was a bit of Lovecraft's art snobbery against Futurism (not Cubism, d'oh!).

And, lastly, I really liked how, after having read Zamacona's account, the narrator does everything in his power to rationalize or debunk what he's learned despite the strange occurrences he's personally witnessed. It illustrates how well Lovecraft understood human nature in this regard (while he might miss the mark elsewhere, with fainting spells and feelings of wonder at being encased in hellish black mire). He understood that, when faced with some trauma or understanding that goes against everything we think we know about the world, our minds will fight to reassure themselves. I loved that about the last chapter.

Overall, "The Mound" let me down like "At the Mountains of Madness" let me down. There are excellent, creepy, and vague suggestions set up early on which are undermined by a tonal shift the stories can't quite recover from (less so in the case of "Mountains"). The stories move from vague horror to explicit and long-winded anthropological and historical accounts, which place them firmly in the realm of science fiction rather than the brilliant marriage of the two genres we get in "The Colour Out of Space." I don't blame Lovecraft for trying it out; most of his stories up to now use vagueness to the point of being comical in some cases, so teasing out these detailed accounts of an alien race's social, political, agricultural, and artistic history is a change of pace. It's just a shame that he felt the need to be so detailed about it, since it deflates all the tension which the early parts of these stories painstakingly build up.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 11:04:50 AM by Cloven Sunfish » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 07:24:18 AM »

My biggest reaction for this episode was on the news that The Medusa's Coil is coming up.  It's the only colaboration story I've already read before the appropriate episode.

But more on that when the episode comes round.

As to The Mound; so far it seems neither particularly good nor particularly bad.  But hearing our hosts comments is always fun and insightful, no matter what the story is like.
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2011, 09:51:54 AM »

Fellow Lovecraftians,

I read this story some time ago, and always considered it one of my favorites. I am going to have to re-read it, to see if I agree with Chris and Chad's criticisms.
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2011, 05:17:54 PM »

The whole "bait and switch" complaint is interesting.

"The Mound" isn't a horror or sci-fi story, as Chad and Chris point out, it's actually a faerie story. I twigged to this pretty quickly - the title is a huge clue (as in the term "fairy mounds") and then there's the fate of the Colonel character early on in the recounting of the titular mound's story. There's an old Irish story about Ossian, the son of Finn Mac Cool, who spent 300 years living with the elf-people, after which he returned to Ireland. St. Patrick, naturally, was on hand to welcome him home. Among the faerie folk, Ossian did not age, but was as immortal as they. Yet as Ossian stepped off a ship and set foot on Irish soil again, those 300 years caught up to him and he disintegrated like an Indiana Jones villain. The whole changing age and then painful death thing that happened to the Colonel was just a variation of poor Ossian's fate.

There's a whole body of tales about travelers entering underground into the realm of Faerie, where they live eternally, eating strange food and enacting strange ceremonies. "The Mound" is just Lovecraft's version of one of those, incorporating his own weird aesthetic and mythos elements, and I enjoyed it a great deal based on that. The transposition of the faerie mound from Europe to the States was interesting, the incorporation of real legends and the history of Coronado was neat, and even if it was repetitive, I really enjoyed the beat by beat recounting of all the strangeness in the history of the mound. But I'm a dead sucker for that sort of thing.
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« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 09:49:37 AM »

Say, I just thought of something... we've seen these strange Indians, underground civilizations, and giant subterranean gulfs in the American Southwest before...
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« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 04:58:03 PM »

The whole "bait and switch" complaint is interesting.

"The Mound" isn't a horror or sci-fi story, as Chad and Chris point out, it's actually a faerie story. I twigged to this pretty quickly - the title is a huge clue (as in the term "fairy mounds") and then there's the fate of the Colonel character early on in the recounting of the titular mound's story. There's an old Irish story about Ossian, the son of Finn Mac Cool, who spent 300 years living with the elf-people, after which he returned to Ireland. St. Patrick, naturally, was on hand to welcome him home. Among the faerie folk, Ossian did not age, but was as immortal as they. Yet as Ossian stepped off a ship and set foot on Irish soil again, those 300 years caught up to him and he disintegrated like an Indiana Jones villain. The whole changing age and then painful death thing that happened to the Colonel was just a variation of poor Ossian's fate.

There's a whole body of tales about travelers entering underground into the realm of Faerie, where they live eternally, eating strange food and enacting strange ceremonies. "The Mound" is just Lovecraft's version of one of those, incorporating his own weird aesthetic and mythos elements, and I enjoyed it a great deal based on that. The transposition of the faerie mound from Europe to the States was interesting, the incorporation of real legends and the history of Coronado was neat, and even if it was repetitive, I really enjoyed the beat by beat recounting of all the strangeness in the history of the mound. But I'm a dead sucker for that sort of thing.

You have a darn god point there, Yojimbo. I never really connected Lovecraft with anything "faerie", but i guess it does fit in well with the little folk mythology in Europe.

As for the Juan Romero connection, who is to say that the two are mutually exclusive. I am inclined to believe that at some point, Lovecraft was incorporating America into his mythos simply to give a bit of depth and antiquity to our relatively new culture. I can totally see Lovecraft deciding that we needed a bit of "seasoning" as a country.

Bob
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« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2012, 06:18:04 PM »

Howdy, ya'll. I've been burning through the podcasts and writings of Lovecraft in prep for an Lovecraftian improv show at my theater.

Anyhow, apologies if this has been brought up before, but this passage from The Mound stood out to me:

Quote
"when the men of K’n-yan went down into N’kai’s black abyss with their great atom-power searchlights they found living things—living things that oozed along stone channels and worshipped onyx and basalt images of Tsathoggua.

But they were not toads like Tsathoggua himself. Far worse—they were amorphous lumps of viscous black slime that took temporary shapes for various purposes."

To me it seems pretty clear that Lovecraft is toying with the idea of shoggoths. That the denizens of N'kai wound up suffering a similar fate to the Old ones in The Mountains of Madness. It's the taking of temporary shapes that really seems similar to me.

Anyways, it's a cool thought.
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