Are these people serious?

[MediaGhost]

First off, I honestly don't want to impugn anyone's religion or belief system here.  This is a nice calm forum and I don't want to ruffle any tentacles.  But, seriously, I've read this article all the way through and, really, WTF?  I get the distinct feeling that HPL would have gagged on phrases like "magickal realism" and "culturally conditioned reality tunnels."

I mean, I know I'm a noob here, and I don't want to start a "flamewar" or anything.  But - are there really people who think they're somehow in contact with Nyarlathotep?  Even if Nyarlathotep existed, would anyone really want to meet the freakin' avatar of Azathoth?

[Genus Unknown]

I get the distinct feeling that HPL would have gagged on phrases like "magickal realism" and "culturally conditioned reality tunnels."

Oh yeah, Lovecraft would roll his eyes so hard that they'd burst out of the top of his skull.

Occultists are odd ducks. Like any lifelong metalhead and horror fanatic, I've toyed with various forms of occultism (rejecting them all as ridiculous hogwash as I got older), and I get the feeling any incredulity would be met with explanations that it's all symbolic somehow, and is meant to transform the psyche of the individual practitioner, blah blah blah. I remain skeptical, to say the least, and I think incorporating an overtly fictional pantheon of gods/aliens into any kind of serious religious or magical practice is just plain goofy. I mean, I'm a major Lovecraft nerd and I love his approach to mythology, but I'm not about to start looking for excuses to "believe" in it. That's just taking one's nerd-passion way too far.

Of course, having said all that, I admit to being a bit of a nihilist myself, and in a meaningless universe, I suppose worshiping a fictional monster makes about as much sense as anything else. 

[MediaGhost]

...and I get the feeling any incredulity would be met with explanations that it's all symbolic somehow, and is meant to transform the psyche of the individual practitioner, blah blah blah.

Like some kind of weird(er) self-actualization thing?  est-lathotep? 

I mean, I'm a major Lovecraft nerd and I love his approach to mythology, but I'm not about to start looking for excuses to "believe" in it. That's just taking one's nerd-passion way too far.

Yeah, I get it.  I know at least one person who thinks soap operas were real.  Hell, I've had a sneaking suspicion that a substantial number of people can't tell the difference between movie characters and the actors who play them.

Of course, having said all that, I admit to being a bit of a nihilist myself, and in a meaningless universe, I suppose worshiping a fictional monster makes about as much sense as anything else. 

Really can't argue with you on that score. 

[Genus Unknown]

...and I get the feeling any incredulity would be met with explanations that it's all symbolic somehow, and is meant to transform the psyche of the individual practitioner, blah blah blah.

Like some kind of weird(er) self-actualization thing?  est-lathotep? 

Yep. To call a spade a fuckin' shovel, as they say.  At least, that's the impression I got from my reading of Crowley and LaVey. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent crazy folks.

[yumegari]

Bloody hell, and here I thought it was only that Tyson guy doing this sort of thing, with his Order of the Old Ones/Shining Trapezohedron Chaos Magic  whatnot.  Granted, I bought his Necronomicon as well as the Tarot thereof, the Grimoire thereof and the 13 Gates thereof, but pretty much because I find that kind of thing entertaining and because it might be useful as an idea springboard for my own writing projects and possible CoC adventures.  The books are full of this dude's attempts to beat the square peg of the Mythos into the round hole of what he calls 'Esoteric Tradition,' claiming that it's no more than a Lovecraftian interpretation of such.  I'm sure Derleth also had detailed reasons for /his/ alteration of the fundamental point (this is not, contrary to what one might expect, a hate-on for Derleth, I view his work as separate, not inferior).  I have no idea if Tyson meant his version to be taken at all seriously, maybe he just had a lot of fun writing it, maybe it was a joke, or maybe he really is serious, who knows.  But wow, it's scary that people will worship a fictional creation.

Then again, playing devil's advocate, this kind of thing happens a lot--witness the Church of the Jedi, religious texts translated into Klingon, even Pastafarianism.  How much of it is rebellion against the status quo and how much of it is serious faith?  Nobody knows.  Futher, there are those who would argue that even mainstream religions are the worship of fictional characters, concepts, etc, maintaining that religion was created by humankind.

... and I'm wading into far too deep of territory for... *looks at clock* 1:30 am.

[old book]

Well, that URL presents Erik Davis's Calling Cthulhu as if it were something newly published. It's been around for years, was originally published years ago in the now-defunct Gnosis magazine if I remember right, and is fairly outdated. The Chtulhu cultists have moved ever onward and downward.

Of course it's hogweed, but that's not the point: it's damned interesting people take it seriously and attempt to lend it the powers of their imaginations. People believe the Necronomicon exists, they want to believe it, it fills some need for them. Different magical systems devise methods for trying to entrain the power inhering in Lovecraft's imagery. Peter Levenda in "Simon's" Necronomicon goes on about how he has devised a "workable" system. Working the system, a nice double meaning appropriate to that specific Work(-ing).

A.A,A:A: al-Azif, Abdul Alhazred, Aeon Aiwatzit? Lovecraft's numinosity doesn't lie in any systematization, synthesis or categorization of theistic or chthonic elements in his stories and poems. Attempts to codify, quantify, catalog and canonize Lovecraft at best lead to RPGs, at worst to semi-worthless grimoires filled with love philtres, banishing rituals and lake monsters. imho.

[catamount]

It is fortuitous that I came across this topic because it seems I am observing more and more Lovecraftian ideas and constructs not only in literature but in television, movies and the web in general. Lovecraft seems to be getting more popular but maybe that it just my perception, perhaps its always been there and I haven't looked for it. As for me, I have to admit, I'm starting to get burned out, after this podcast is over, Mr. Lovecraft and I are going to take a very long break (up) from each other. No, no, it's me, not you darling...

[vortexgods]

Lovecraft's gods are meant to be personifications of impersonal natural forces that humans are powerless against.  He's pretty explicit about it in some of his stories, like "The Other Gods" and it's why Azathoth is a "blind, idiot god."

I'd also say they could be well represented by the asteroid we theorize killed the dinosaurs, and that for humans worshiping them would be about as effective as worshiping an asteroid.  (Not impossible, the Heaven's Gate cult worshiped a comet, after all...)

Lovecraft is like Spinoza in that way.

Now, it's true that in his story, for example, Cthulhu is an actual material thing that lies dead and dreaming in his house at R'lyeh in "The Call of Cthulhu."  But he just represents natural laws that are beyond normal human understanding, he's not a 'god' so much as he's a very powerful, indestructible, immortal being that is capable of communicating telepathically and is as far beyond humans intellectually as a human is above an amoeba.  (He's basically a step up from H. G. Wells' Martians, the Martians represent alien colonialists that are more technologically advanced than humans but that don't so outclass humans that we'd have no chance against them.  We'd just have a very slim chance... we couldn't do anything against Cthulhu at all.)

I've read people who compared "The Colour Out of Space" to the effects of nuclear fallout.  Think of the area around the Fukushima nuclear plant when you re-read that story.

Lovecraft didn't believe that Cthulhu actually existed, but he probably figured that nasty things like Cthulhu were out there in the Universe to find.  It reminds me of Hawkings' Caution, actually... just dramatized for a story.

[old book]

vortexgods:

Also see Yaldaboath/Ialdaboath for more on blind idiotic gods. Also known as Unintelligent Design, coming to a school near you.

Heaven's Gate actually worshipped their cult leader, and Star Trek: The Next Generation. The Hale-Bopp "mothership" was just the beginning of the next phase, you see.

Fukushima is actually getting worse, not better. I have some somewhat clear photos from the plant itself from the last few months. The photographer is dead by now. Instead of the grey miasmic quality of Colour, the photos look slightly softened, the old vaseline on the lens trick, but there isn't any vaseline. There is a luminous darkness quality to some of them.

catamount: in the AtMoM episode thread there was some discussion of the Necronomicon cloaking its reality. What if in our world the Necronomicon or the forces it represents decided to "market" itself, or rather, invade us, using a psychedelic drug that causes Lovecraftianesque visions? Sort of like the "DMT: the Spirit Molecule" but in this case something darker, the Necronomicon molecule... I think microdosages of this in the water supply goes a long way toward explaining Lovecraft's seemingly ever increasing popularity. I suggest you put in a supply of bottled water from Greenland, fresh meltwater from the glaciers, for your attempted holiday from the dark side. Good luck.

[fishy]

What would life be without the conspiracy theories?

[MediaGhost]

What would life be without the conspiracy theories?

A little bit saner - and a whole lot duller.

[Bob Lovecraft]

What would life be without the conspiracy theories?

It would be very, very suspicious.

Bob

[TransconaSlim]

it's really odd what people do and how they construe things that are completely out there from something sane.   

I'm a part of a small but growing radical workers union called the Industrial Workers of the World (very historic, founded in 1905 and was one of the most forward labor organizations in early 20th century America).  Not too long ago, a group approached us asking for affiliation: the Union of Data Miners and Psychic Workers.  This was there constitution they sent us: http://antisystemic.org/SW/DAMTP1.pdf

[Bob Lovecraft]

I hate to say it, TransconaSlim, but I don't have enough time in the day to try to decipher that thing. Was that really their official communication with you?

Bob

[catamount]

In fairness to the Union of Data Miners and Psychic Workers, I'm also for sexual experimentation and mind-blowing orgasms! I feel if more political groups put that on their docket, they'd get more members. Just saying...